What equity investors taught me about strategy, uncertainty, and building long-term value /

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October 2, 2024

In conversation with Arvind Venkatadri (Engineering Manager, Design Faculty & Professor from IIT Roorkee with experience working at Indian Space Research Organisation, WIPRO, Texas Instruments and also fortunately taught us at Srishti) as part of my pre-thesis : The Currency of Confidence / Making Investing easier for Indian women

Black text = Arvind Venkatadri

Blue text = Manasi Sagdeo

Red text = Siddhi Gupta

Yes, I have always been earning independently. There has never been a time when I have not been earning independently. You know what that means, right? I have more than one revenue stream other than salary. 

And how have you managed your money, say, from when you were 20-25 to now? 

The ways and methods, the ease with which I could invest and the number of products I can access are larger. I can get information without having to meet an expert. Then, all I have to do is put in effort and I am happy putting in effort. I am looking at different product categories and say, I understand this, I don't understand that, I will invest in what I understand and leave this.

Like for example, options trading, futures trading. Yeah. I don't understand that.

I don't feel guilty of it. I can't. Yeah. I don't invest. But stock, you bet.

Within stock, for example, if there is some company that is doing speciality chemicals in some esoteric thing, I don't understand that market. So, then I don't invest in those companies. So, unless I understand what that company's business is like at a very top level, I can explain it in three sentences, I don't invest.

So, your method is understanding the company and looking at how they've been performing?

Very roughly. I don't go into red-heading prospectors, I don't look at their balance sheet. I say, look, this company does this kind of thing. That is the good kind of business. I look at their P-ratio, some numbers. Are they growing? Is the revenue growing? Not growing.

And do you personally invest or have you taken help from say a broker or an agent? 

No. All my investments are my own. I'll show you. 

Yeah, I was just going to ask, are there any fintech platforms? 

Zerodha. I've been on Zerodha since 2013-14. My daughter, my gift to my daughter when she turned 18 was Zerodha among other things.

Oh, yeah. I think that is also the gap, like I've always heard from my dad, he's always pushing me to learn. He's like, सीख लो!, I will help you understand it.

Just do it yourself. You know what you have that I don't have and your dad doesn't have? 

What? Technology and easier access? 

No. 

We're young, we can take risks.

Time. Time. Everything in investment is time.

The longer you stay, the better it is. 

The earlier you start, the better it is. 

Let's say, for example, I really got into Zerodha in 2013-14. Correct. Imagine if I had done it in 2002. My portfolio would have been 5x, 10x of what it is now. It is still very healthy and I'm happy. But it would have been super high now. Definitely, yeah. I could have probably funded a building here. So, the earlier you start, the better it is.

You know what Einstein said, right? 

Einstein said human beings cannot understand compound interest.

It is so bloody true. Compound interest we can't understand because it is multiplication on multiplication on multiplication. It's like COVID.

That's true. And is there some kind of a resource? Like how do you stay updated with market trends? What is your main resource or what is like your investment guru? Is there a person? 

So, there are certain websites I look at. Economic Times, MoneyControl, I look at them roughly. I also get Emailers from fund managers. I scan through what they're saying. Zerodha has Zerodha University (Varsity). So, I have looked through those videos. And I spend some time looking at, from Zerodha, you say this stock, then you can say give me details and then fundamentals and so on. You can go to what used to be called ticker tape earlier. Now it is called some other, some platform which gives you charts and descriptions and what they're engaged in, what events have happened recently. I don't overdo things.

Right. Okay. How was your first experience when you invested? 

Intimidating. He (broker) said, sir, I can't open, you have to put money in there. I said, when, where, how much I have to invest, I’ll do that. You open the account, I'll see. No, sir, you have to put money in. I put money in. Somehow, the interaction didn't feel good for me. They wanted my cheque book and I said, look, this is looking very intrusive. 

So, you approached a bank or an office? 

Zerodha itself. So, I opened my Zerodha in 2013 and I felt very intimidated. So, within two weeks, I pulled the money out. I didn't even invest. I pulled it out. I said, something is smelling here and I didn't do anything for six months. Then I have a close friend who comes with me for yoga and all that and he was saying, yeah, persistent is good, this is good. I said, okay. Then I opened, I looked at my watchlist, there is a watch list out there.

I looked at that and I said, UPI also, I am confident, so I dumped money in. I worked the mechanism a few times, I flushed the pipe, as it so to speak and then roughly, Modi 1.0 onwards, I have been investing. And I began investing about six to eight months, really seriously, on Zerodha, just six to eight months before Modi 1.0. 

It was like a hockey stick up. Even now, it is very variable. It's plus or minus 1% every day, but steadily it is going up.

So, I don't have to, I mean, I can say, I don't have to come here (to college) 

I can come here and say, I am coming for fun. I don't have to be here, be here desperately for, I don't have to worry about my stomach.

Correct, correct. And has your mindset sort of changed? Like, a lot of people that I have talked to, say my grandmother or grandfather or even my parents. So, my mother has always sort of believed in safe options like mutual funds or SIPs or even investing in real estate or gold. So, has there been a transition where you have sort of transitioned from there to stocks or is it a bit of both? 

If anything, I am more unsafe now than I was. I'm taking more risk now at 62 than I was at 40. Because at 40, I just didn't know anything. I only knew the savings certificate from the post office. Mutual funds were just coming. Mutual funds really started off in 2001 when, you know, globalization happened and Manmohan Singh.

And lots of people have lost money in mutual funds also, by the way. 

So, my first mutual fund was in 2002. Okay. Because my tax guy said, sir, you are working in TI, you are keeping stuff in an airfield. I said, tell me what to do. I said, okay, mutual fund. And he was a broker, obviously. So, I did the banking temperament and within 3 years, I said, this is cool, you know. So, I slowly began to invest. And then sometime in, I think, 2014 or so, they had this non-broker thing. You can invest by yourself.

You can do direct investment. Groww and Zerodha is doing now, correct. So, you can approach them directly. You can even, don't have to have the app. Even before the app, you can go on the AMC's website and invest directly. I did that also. So, I was investing in direct mutual funds for about 8-10 years before Zerodha actually came on my scene, at least. Now, Coin is direct. But Coin also offers AMC-based. So, you have to go through all that. So, most of my investments are direct.

If you look at it, I have SIPs running even today on an income that is zero. Don't ask me how. So, I have that. And then, I have a stock thing. 

Correct.

I don't, I have no FDs whatsoever. I only have a bank balance in 3-4 banks. And then, I get some cash from Srishti, I get some cash from Jadhav University. It's enough to pay.

I haven't done SWP yet. I have not withdrawn anything from my mutual fund yet.

It will come. That's fine. And now, when my daughter says, Appa, I need some monthly stuff. Okay, fine. Let's pull out. When I have to pay her fees, for example. I have to pull out. But there's one mutual fund which is exclusively meant for her fees.

That's the only thing I sell. I don't sell anything else.

I pull that out and poof! 20,000 Euros goes there and you're done.

Interesting. Was there any hesitation from her side or was she very open to the idea of investing? 

Well, I said, for a while I will manage it. And you should look at it. And I told her, look, the kind of zeros that we are talking about, we were talking in thousands.

Our parents were talking in hundreds.

We were talking in lakhs.

You will have to talk in crores only.

There is no question. So, if you want those zeros, there's only one thing you have, which is time. So, you start now.

Right? So, I am going to start putting, so I will start her on stock. 

It is going up like hot stuff. Right? So, she understands.

She's looking at it. But she doesn't make decisions. She doesn't have money. Right? I told her, when you start earning, you should partition your income into discretionary expenses, investment. So, investment has gone.

Fear? I am alone. I don't want to depend on anybody. And of course, I also want to look after my daughter well, my family well. My mother is 92 years old. About 18 months ago, she was in need of a heart valve replacement.

She said no. But you know how much that operation would have cost me? Can you put a number to it? 

Can't imagine.

25 lakhs. 

My God!

I didn't even blink.

That is the level at which I was confident that I have money. I am now operating in a way where my fear is no longer a problem. 

I mean, I am looking at things. I am not afraid anymore.

It's like that boy in Home Alone, right? Yeah, he is not afraid anymore. I am solved. I have money. I can do whatever I want. Whatever I reasonably want to do, reasonably, I can do. 

If I want to suddenly drop everything and go to Romania, I can go to Romania now. Not a problem. It's also about empowerment.

Definitely. 

Yeah, so that sortedness I want to have. Of course, I live frugally. I don't spend money. But I want to. If I have to do something, I take it. 

Manasi, can I also stay in this conversation slightly? Yes.

I have more questions. But also, the relationship with money changes. I think what I am also hearing is that it's a way of changing your relationship. Because it's not that you start spending that money. It's not that you start, but you start feeling secure. 

You start feeling secure, yeah. Money grows money.

You know where my wealth is? Do you know the difference between money and wealth? Money is money. Wealth is when you have time.

See, if you don't have money, then you have to do what other people tell you to do. Now, I am not there. I can tell, I won't do this thing today. I won't do anything. I can say, I will only watch TV today. No problem. The world will not end for me. I can tell Kumar, I will do this course for you. Here, I can't do this. Okay, don't do it. No? you are giving less money. I won't do it. So, I can call out bullshit in a manner that I couldn't call out earlier.

I am not saying this is bullshit.

My time is important to me in this way and I will give my time only to things that I value. And I give my time free to lots of people. But I also value my time. So, if I am giving you time, you have to pay me. I am very fearful. So, my wealth is my time. I only have time to use. I have nothing else.

Even my breath is not my own. Can I control my breath? No. My time, I can. I can either give it to you now or I cannot give it to you now. Time is the only resource I have. Can I really spend it freely? If I can, then I am wealthy.

If I am not, then I am a slave to something. Something is there. I have to overcome that thing and then I will be really wealthy. So, wealth is time. Wealth is time, yeah.

Is there any advice that you would give to someone who is starting to invest as a beginner now? 

Don't stop. 

Have you heard Rod Stewart's song? Young hearts, be free. Time is on your side. Yeah. Listen to that song, Young Turks.

It's called Young Turks. 

Young hearts, be free. Tonight, time is on your side. 

As long as time is on your side, करते रहो, करते रहो! 

It's the same thing with what people say, find your passion, right? 

Passion is bullshit. Skill is what you need. 

You need to master a skill. If you do carpentry well, your passion will come by doing carpentry in a while. You will understand what to do.

So, find your passion, find your passion. Because you have to give time to things. Anything worth doing, five years. I will learn visual communication for the next five years. I will do illustration. Kalamkari, five years. Where will you be in five years time? If you do Kalamkari for five years, you will be a genius. Then you will know what your passion is. You will know whether you want to make children's books or adult books or advertising books. All that will come. You will not be the same person who was talking about passion earlier.

That is the transformative part, right? But time is on your side. Time is on your side. Definitely.

Don't stop. 

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In conversation with Vikram Kaushik (Professor, Creative Director & an Options Buyer)

Black text = Vikram

Blue text = Manasi Sagdeo

(conversation begins..)

So, you have started earning independently right? How has your journey been?

Yeah, a long time ago, I think. At least 6-7 years ago; I think initially, when we used to earn money, it was to grow through the salary. Because I could not stand any amount in my account. And when I used to see, oh, 500 is still there, I will go and buy some more. It used to be like that.

Damn, okay. 

So, in my career, I think I have had very good growth from the start. And I did not have any taking or anything. I did a web design course. Then, 9-11 happened. And then I decided that the industry has kind of come to a standstill. Maybe I should get a taking. Got it. So, then I went to New Zealand. Then I got a job in New Zealand. And my career started somewhere around 2000. 2009-2000. And from the first 7 years, all of this was happening. Agency experience, then becoming senior art director, then suddenly getting one more break, then some health related issue. And there was a little bit of a standstill in my career. Because I had to take care of that issue. After that, I was somehow, because of my health, I was pushed to maybe look at freelance. Because I used to do freelancing mostly just as a side thing.

But now I had to consider it seriously. So, I started freelancing. Then the business started mounting. And then, okay, let me hire somebody. So, slowly slowly from 2007, just by myself, by 2013-14, I had around 12 people. We were doing reasonably well. But then, 2013 turned out to be a very big mistake on my part because I took a partner and all that happened. And then, 13 was bad, then 14 also turned out to be a fairly very very negative year. So, then I stopped and moved to independent consulting. 

So, I would say the real investment, 

so- called real investment started when I started my own business.

And how have you, now how do you sort of manage your money? So, do you invest? Yeah.

You do invest. And is that one of your primary management methods? 

Okay, so, the thing is, me and my wife, we were both freelancers. She is working. So, till now my money is spent on the expenses. Her money is saved. So, the investment part is generally taken care of by a fund manager. Which we also had, I think we employed one in 2018.

Before that we were just doing these insurances. I think my first investment was the LIC.

LIC 1, yeah.First policy.

Yeah, I think that is very common. That was the starting point. 

Starting point, yeah. Then came one more policy in 2005. 

After that, once I started my own business, so money started coming in, extra money came in. So, I spent some money in real estate here and there and whatever. And then I got into real estate in 2010. Plot in Pondicherry, hospital area. Then I bought a flat. Then I bought a plot and there are too many details. After that, it has been just saving on my wife. I think in various ways. And then that continued to pile up and pile up.

Mostly that. We were not very big risk takers.

It was only in 2018 when we added this thing to our fund manager. So, he told us, okay, if you want to take risk, you have to split it in, let us say, maybe equity, debt, whatever order. And then because you guys are going to keep your money safe, I will say we will park at least 70% in debt, which will give you some 700%.

That time the FD rates were very less. And some money will still park in equity.

Likely to get you more returns. But there is a, you know, there is a huge shocker that came in 2020. And my main issue was that if you are such big fund managers or money managers.

You would not anticipate? you knew that the market was going to drown. But I am thankful he had deployed the money in such a way, we did not incur a loss.

We became very paranoid. I told him I am going to extract the money out. You keep, park them in FD. Whatever, let the market settle down. Then we can start again. And I remember him saying, please do not exit right now. This is the best time to invest. And for the entire, during COVID, I experimented a lot with shares. I loved it.

I experimented, made a fair amount of money and lost also. That is part and parcel. Yeah. But I understood how it was done. How it is done. I understand the data now. I know what to invest, where to invest, all that information is with me. So now my focus is to wait. Whenever there is a big crash happening, I am waiting.

I have understood one thing. Whenever there is a crash, go all out. Go all out. That is not the time to worry. Take it out, yeah. Just invest whatever you have and just forget about it. For 3 years, just forget. Just forget about it. It will at least give you 5 times, 10 times return. But if you enter in times like these, when the market is at an all time high, you are likely to lose money. 

Interesting, yeah. And how was your first experience with, say, the stock market? Is there some memory associated with it? 

Lost money. My cousin was doing it. So I gave him some money, but he lost it. And then I remember I also dabbled with something. Lost money in it. Yeah. It was around 2020.

Okay. When the lockdown happened, no? I started reading the data. There is so much information available. So I started dabbling. It's okay to pass time. Something has to be done. 

My wife is a freelancer. I am a freelancer. 

And she (my daughter) was a little girl. She once all got stalled. Stopped.

Canceled everything. And mine was also consulting, so can't travel really. 

So, a lot of F&B got smacked. So, some consulting, some restaurant, Evo Branding, stuff, stalled. So anyways, that's the time I experimented. And the first three months, two to three months, is purely understanding what a chart is. Going into the background of a particular stock. Historical data, understanding that historical data. How it has behaved during all the past years. Then finally also understanding in India, which companies have stood the test of time. Why they haven't failed. If anything happens, they will still survive. Why will they still survive? Because they have the most amazing business models. Nobody can touch them.

No matter whatever has happened, they will. They will sustain. So that happened. Then, the worst thing that I remember now is, I have invested money in companies which had really become very, very low. Like pittance. To such levels. And they are now some 10x, 20x. And because I was new, I remember investing in those amounts. And you would just panic. The moment that share became, let's say you invested in that share at a rate of 130. Let's say you put in 1000 shares, you spend 130,000. And then suddenly that share starts moving upwards. And upwards is when you start panicking. Because you are not a trained investor. Okay, you are a first time or a novice investor. Let's say this has become 135. Yeah. Whatever crashes, you will exit. Then suddenly it will become 140, 145. Then again come back to 128.

I was not able to understand whether I should stay in or not. Now the same company must be trading now at least at 1350. And it's not just one company. There are so many of them. There are so many. The companies that I picked up. Then I also started experimenting with certain tools. 

There is a thing called small case. Small case. Ticker tape!

So I started playing there. I started doing research on my own about companies.

Started understanding the balance sheets. Yeah. So what is a path? What is, you know, all those sorts of things. “Terminology scale”. “Profit after tax”. Revenue scale, turnover scale, cash results scale. So what is the growth looking like? So I did all that. Then I also tried to understand how this entire thing worked.

So very dependent, very heavily dependent on American markets. Yeah. So you have to listen to the American market news. You have to listen to the Indian market news. Any big thing which means there could be something. So you have to prepare accordingly for that day. So there are people who say that I am a day trader. And I am not sure how many of them really make money. So there is a thing called swing trader. So what happens is you invest money. If your share rises. Let's say you invested about 2 lakhs. Now the money has become 220 or 240, whatever. There is a 20% increase. It's just like that. And then you realize, okay, I have got a 10% increase. Let me exit. So you exit. Then you re-enter. So they keep entering, re-entering, but not on a daily basis. On a weekly or bi-weekly sort of. Bi-weekly. For as long as their money comes into profit. So the moment money comes into profit, they exit. So that's a swing trader.

So I used to do a lot of swings. Swing trader. The moment you get green, good money, you exit. Not realizing that you have just made a very short move. Right. If you just let that money sit there, yeah. Bad times like COVID. Or let's say the next crash could be because of a war or whatever. Whatever, yeah. That's the time you just forget it. You just think that the money has been lost. And you just keep it there. Just keep it, forget it. Because you are likely to open the app and see the daily movement.

That's the worst thing you can do. Because it can trigger your psychology.

And I personally think 90% is psychology. 90% is psychology.

So you mentioned a lot of tools that you sort of... So is there any specific digital tool, say for example, like a YouTube video or a course or a person that you followed? 

Lots of. I don't remember. I think I used to watch Tasty... Tasty Trades? Something like that. Lots of places. First thing was to understand, see, the bar chart. It's the most crucial thing.

To understand how it is really playing. Then there is a lot of terminology. Words, paranormal Web App. RSI. There is Balancing Mind. All of those things are there. So you have to understand how they are playing. And most of the things with the share market is, there are lagging indicators. There is no... forecasting indicator.

Prediction, yeah. Nothing is there. So you have to understand the data and take a bet. Yourself. You have to be pretty resilient. In your bet.

In your mindset, okay, I have taken this, I have understood the data, now if the market misbehaves, I will stick to my rule. What happens is, then you don't stick to the rule or stick to your idea and you lose out money. So the investors, they don't do it. Yeah, they stick to it. I have done enough. I know what the company is. Maybe temporary. 6 months, 8 months, it doesn't matter. But it will give me a return. I collect the money.

So I have done it now with crypto. Oh. Bitcoin and Ethereum. I have done that. Okay. So part, a reasonably large amount. And it's just, you should look at the movement in crypto. It's mad. So sometimes, it just doubled, I think, in January, February, March, I have bought some money. Within a month, it just multiplied. And I was so tempted to exit.

Now it is back. It is 50% less. It doesn't matter. Yeah, you stick to it.

So you need to take these risks. Yeah, 2030 is my vision.

I don't want to lose till 2030. So whatever happens in that, I will see.

So it's the money that I think I can afford to lose. Because I will pay back into my, whatever kitty that we have. Put that to my consulting or to whatever salary and put it back. So with investment, you have to be little..risk appetite has to be very strong. Okay, so let's say you have 100 bucks. 100 bucks, you should think, okay, I want to say, being a sensible investor, I don't want to diversify. You will say, okay, 60 rupees, I don't want to risk it. Park it in, what I would say, investments like debt funds or FDs, whatever. Because you guys are young. Yeah. So I think you should take slightly higher risks.

For us, it's not required. To play it safe. So like I take risk for about 5% of my investment out of the 100 bucks. Playing wildly with the 5 rupees. But you can play wildly with the 40 rupees.

I think Arvind also mentioned the same thing. He is like, the only difference, like the better thing that you have as compared to your dad is this time.

The time that you can actually experiment. So, like my daughter is studying here, I have already told her that, okay, so the day you start earning money, you will have to buy one share yourself, per month. Just keep buying one share of a company, I will tell you which company. You just buy one share. You keep adding it to your booty every month. But one, two shares after that. 

And did you see any sort of hesitation from her side or anything like that? No, no.

That's nice, that's great. And were there any obstacles that came in your journey of learning? So one of the obstacles when you are parking money, yeah, you have to plan for your penalties. So, now what happened is that fees are expensive. So, I have to pay some money.

So, we were looking at something, some type of communication that led me to park my money, invest my money somewhere else. And now suddenly there was a requirement to pay fees. So, suddenly we had to pay all the fees and then we realized that I had parked the money there. I can't extract the money. Now the problem continues. So, for example, with Bitcoin, I can take the money out and pay the fee. But then, I didn't do that because of this.

So, that's the thing that I would recommend. Whosoever is investing, be very careful of the emergency fund.

You should make sure that your money is there. Yeah.

So, for any problems, what if you let's say you invested 100 bucks and the market crashed and your 100 bucks has now become 60. And suddenly you have an emergency. You have no option but to extract. So, you've taken that loss. But if you can have other resources or somewhere else, you won't have to really take that out. Let the money be here.

We'll come back. We'll come back. 

And how do you stay up-to-date with the market trends that go on around? 

I haven't really. Not really. I've just invested in real estate in the last one year. So, all my investments are down there now. Because I think currently Indian markets are behaving very fraudulently. There is no reason for the markets to go so high. Like jobs are not there, industries are booming. And BJP and commerce governments behave very differently. So, when BJP is there, stock markets will go up. And when Congress comes back, real estate will go up. 

So, a cyclical approach to investment is also very important. 

And, what are some common misconceptions that you've heard about the stock market that are not actually true? 

Actually, most of them are true. It is a gamble. And, you are likely to be, you will behave for sure. And also, things that you see online, “oh, I made this much money every day.” Yeah. “I am a trader..”, don't get interested. Don't get interested, very important, yeah. It's not easy. I've played with a fairly large amount of money in the stock market. And there's just no movement. There are times when your money is parked and it's not doing anything. And you then realize where is my profit? I've parked so much money the entire day. It doesn't work.

It doesn't work like that. So, unless you go train yourself in the market, you will not understand the market.

So, okay, so for any education you have to spend money. So, losing money in the stock market is your training. So, you have to be ready. Okay, I am going to learn 2 to 3 lakh rupees will go to you in losses. But the approach is to learn.

If you become crazy and continue to become a gambler, that's a different thing. But 2 to 3 lakh, 4 lakhs of rupees are very persistent, focused and disciplined. I think it's enough to teach you the basics of the market. Most about it, yeah. 

And does your wife also invest herself? No. 

She doesn't? No, not at all. Not at all.

And why do you think she is not risk averse? So, with her, it's like - Can't take the risk. Can't take the risk. 

But is she still keen on learning about it? Is she still curious about it? 

She wants, okay, this is it. You have to do it. You want to do this? Yeah. Are you sure? Yeah? Okay, you can do it. You do it or the fund manager will do it. But that's it. That's it. No dabbling. So, the stock market has an intrinsic risk. It is a risk.

You can't say it's a safe place to park your car. 

And is there any sort of other advice that you would give to someone who has just started investing or has just started earning money like, for example, us? 

Rather than investing through SIPs and this and that, invest it yourself. Direct, buy the stock.

There are a handful of companies in India. It's not rocket science. You can literally count them. Just keep buying one share a month. Like you buy a fashionable top, just buy a share.

Correct, correct. Yeah, I think that's a good metaphor. That's what we are looking at.

Just buy a share. Yeah, it's easy. And in a market, let's say, you're buying every month.

And if the market crashes that month, you buy 20. Or 50. If you're buying every month, you're growing every month. 

Alright, thank you.

---

In conversation with Rangatham Sir (Stock Market Teacher, local class, Yelahanka, Bengaluru, India)

Black text = Rangatham

Blue text = Manasi Sagdeo

(conversation begins..)

I want to know what kind of work you are doing, like how are you teaching students?, and just want to know about how people respond to it? and because you are someone who is teaching students right now, I want to know what your experience has been like and what are your thoughts about it? 

Okay, so here we are into stock market purchasing, so it is not about gender, it is not about age, everyone can do it. Now how does it work? Stock marketing is the biggest opportunity and our Indian economy is directly proportional to Indian stock market growth. So here we are investing money, where we are investing, we are giving our money to some companies, they are expanding their business, if the company grows, employment will increase, so per capita will increase, so GDP will increase, that's how the economy will increase. So here there are two perceptions, as investors, as we are investors, we enter into the stock market to make money. So the company comes to the stock market to raise the funds, to that side. 

So here what we are doing is, we are teaching the stock market - how to do, how not to do. Stock market is the biggest opportunity ever created in the world. 

It includes exponential growth. Here we are teaching, there will be two types of analysis, like fundamental analysis and technical analysis. So here we are teaching how to pick some stocks. In the stock market, in the Indian stock market especially, we are having more than 6,000 companies listed in NSE and BSE. So out of 6,000 companies, which company is to be picked? So here the thing is, if you are investing in the stock market, it is completely your risk. There is no guarantee that if you are investing in some X company, that company has to provide some profits. 

There is no guarantee. No guarantee. It is completely our risk.

So to invest in some particular companies, we have to do research. How to do research? What are the considerations? 

Correct. 

For example, fundamentals. What are the parameters we have to look in? We are teaching about fundamentals and technicals. So the graph will never be like this (steady growth curve). There will be ups and downs. So technical analysis all tells about, you know, how, when to invest, when not to invest and when to buy, when not to buy and when to buy, when to exit.

So sir, is it necessary that everyone from a finance background can only learn about this? 

No, anyone can. Anyone can learn. Anyone. I told you, no? Irrespective of gender, profession or age. Anyone can learn. 

So even if I say I am just 21 years old and I am not earning that much right now because I am still studying in my college, is investing also something that I can do sitting at my home? 

Yes. you can. Absolutely. It helps you. It helps you like anything and it gives you help like - you get more knowledge. Stock market is linked to every aspect. So if some war is happening, some budget is happening, some flood is happening, some company is opening, everything is related to the stock market.

So we have to observe the news.

How do you stay updated with the market trends? Like do you follow magazines or newspapers? 

News. News. It is all about online. We are having money control and ET news. We will be getting updates from all the websites.

Okay and sir, while you are teaching, do you sort of, how do you make it more accessible to the students? Like do you teach them through graphs, do you teach them through visuals? 

Yes. Through the board. So it is easier for them to understand it.

And have you observed this trend that there are more men who are interested to learn this as compared to women?

No, here we get all types of people, like men, housewives, especially housewives. 

Oh, housewives come to learn? Especially them.

Interesting. 

Because if you learn the stock market, you can study at home and you can earn. Especially for housewives, it is a very good thing. You don't have to go anywhere. It is enough to have knowledge and it is enough to get updated.

Correct. So my mother is also a housewife, but she doesn't know how to get started into the stock market. So when you train housewives, do you observe their mentality to be different from, say, men who are ready to teach? 

Obviously, we have to learn.  Because there are three types of people. So few people will learn at one time. For a few people, we have to teach two to three times. For a few people, we have to teach multiple times. So we start from scratch actually.

Here, we start from scratch. What is the stock market? All the basics. 

So we have three types of courses. The first one is the gold course. It starts from what is the stock market? How does it work? Why do we have to enter into the stock market? So the benefits of doing it. And for the people who have some knowledge, if they are going deep into the market, if they want to learn more about the market, we are teaching up to in-depth knowledge. And also we are providing some personal training. Personal training also; just like if you go to gym, there will be a personal trainer. Similarly, here we are providing some personal mentor. He will be teaching for the next three months.

So the main agenda of personal training is to make the people independent.

Yeah. That is also something I am focusing on my project more. Because that is such an important thing right now.

And is there any advice that you would give to someone who is just going to start learning now? 

Just focus on learning. It is the biggest success you can ever have. 

And how do you recommend one starts to learn about these things? Say, if they can't come to a class like yours, can we learn by ourselves online through videos or things like that? 

Yes. You can, but is it more effective? But, see, what did you do? Engineering? 

Design. Design.

So, in designing also there are a lot of videos on YouTube. Can you learn on YouTube online? No, not at all. 

Why? Because it is different from experience.

Similarly, if you learn the stock market, you must have one trainer or teacher. You can get knowledge, but you don't know how to use it, then? We have to do practically, then only we will get knowledge. 

That is true. And what would you say to people who are very scared to invest in the stock market? Because there is so much risk, there is so much conflict, it is so unpredictable.

Like that is one of my biggest fears, honestly. 

There are two segments, majorly. One is intraday trading. There’s trading and investment. If you directly enter into trading, you will lose everything. Sure shot. So, you know how it will be? Without knowing Swimming, you are directly going into the swimming. Does it work? So, first you have to learn. First you have to learn how the stock market works. First you have to focus on, you know, investment. Then you have to know all the technicalities. Technical analysis. Then only you have to start with a very small amount. Once you get experienced, then you can go for trading.

And how have the housewives sort of started? Like, have you observed the change in their mindset? 

Obviously. Obviously. So, you can see their progress also. In terms of taking that risk.

Because women usually are very risk averse. There are a lot of people, a lot of women, just they left office and came here. There are women also, who are housewives. They are earning, there are students also.

And do you have female teachers also? Or is it you only for now? 

Here we are not having.

And how do you make it easier for them to understand? Like what is your method? 

Using examples. See, the stock market is directly connected to real life scenarios. Correct? We use real life scenarios to make it easier for them to understand.

Do you have an example you can give? 

So, this is the simplest method, see. What is the stock market? Stock market is a place, okay, this is one of the markets where we can buy and sell the shares. So, how does it work? For example, companies. We as investors, we directly go for, we make profit rate. That's it. There is nothing difficult to understand. So, companies, why do companies come to the stock market? 

For example, JD Academy is a business, it's a company. We are having five branches currently. I want to expand into 50 cities. I need funds. What are the options for me? I can directly go to the bank. Or I can go for investors. If I go for investors, I have to share the profit first. They have to like my ideology, my idea, my business, my process and everything.

If not, I don't get it. Second one is banks. I can go to the bank. For example, I have expanded my business. If my business fails, what happens? I have to pay a reasonable amount as an investment. That's too risky. So, that's why companies come to the public. There are two types of companies. Private limited and public limited.

Public limited means stock market. Public or investors.

They can have an IPO. Initial public offering. So, they offer some shares, some portion of shares. So, they get ownership of the company. They get money, right? By using that money, they can expand their business. If that company is not doing good business, the share price will decrease. Isn't it? Because there is no demand. If one company is doing very good business, everyone likes to invest in that company. That's how demand is created. It comes, you know, supply and demand.

So, everyone is interested in buying some shares. So that demand is created, share price increases. That's how the stock market is. Now, is it difficult to understand? 

No, no. Easy. I think when someone explains like this, it is better. Because every time I open YouTube to learn, there are such big complicated words. Liquidity and this. And so, I am scared to take that first step only. Because I feel like I am not going to understand. 

We are simplifying the methods like anything.

And what's your biggest motivation to do all of this? Like, just out of curiosity? 

Biggest motivation, one is making money. That's the biggest motivation for us. That's the first and foremost in any field. If you don't have money, for example, you are from the middle class or somewhere, money is the biggest motivation. And here, company works here. Exponential company works here. So, for example, in the first two years, you focused on learning. You made just one lakh. That's it. If you have enough knowledge, you can make one lakh in a single day. After getting some experience. 

That is a very big motivation.

One more thing is time freedom. I don't need to depend on someone. That's the biggest thing for me, especially. Time freedom. If I have enough money, capital. If I have enough capital, I don't need to go to any job. I can sit at home. It is enough to have a phone and network.

Actually, I was an IT guy previously. I just shifted my career into the stock market.

I wanted to spend a minimum of three years in the stock market. To learn. So that I get enough knowledge that I can leave my job or I can do it on my own.

And why do you want to teach others? 

That's my passion. You can understand how I am giving knowledge, right? That's what I like. 

And sir, are there some common misconceptions that people have about the stock market which are not true at all? 

There are a lot of people. Listening to people. Listening to people who don't know about the stock market. And they have seen some losses directly entering the stock market. Obviously, that's the biggest issue in the Indian stock market.

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